Some incredible insight from a former lead WoW dev on Cata being a Horde Expansion Get amazing deals with my discount code ‘DORON’ https://gvo.deals/Doron
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If back in Cataclysm you felt the Alliance was getting the short end of the stick and if you ever felt that Garrosh’ super villain transformation was weird you were completely right. We just got incredibly interesting insight from a former lead Blizzard developer that addresses the whole mess that was the faction storyline of the Southern Barrens and how the criticism led them to turn Garrosh from a guy with some bad sides but still honorable to a complete monster that ended up consuming a heart of an Old God mainly to appease the Alliance fans. So let’s look at this insight and how this bit of storyline from Cataclyms impacted World of Warcraft all the way up to the worl d soul saga.
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Was this the right move back in the day? Also get amazing deals with my discount code 'DORON' https://gvo.deals/Doron
Garrosh was the Horde Hero that took the fight to the lich king.
Do we need a dev telling us why he went evil?
Man Garrosh was a warmonger from the very fucking start.
Thrall giving willingly the warchief title to him was utter bs writing.
Even Garrosh said so himself during his last duel 😂
Garish was much less interesting when he became the dictator, shame he had a lot of potential
Apparently I can't say anything bad about the Horde here. Thanks for deleting my earlier comment.
So…instead of writing the story to make sense and have continuity they literally alter the whole of the world for the fans? Riiiiiiight. Or…they couldn't come up with a reason for bad writing and just decided to pass the buck.
In general I am not a fan of having black or white type of the conflict. Just imagine how many races are part of the horde and the alliance, each has their own interests, culture, behavior, traditions. I would expect more politics (especially on alliance side) and some "Old world" or "Outland" issues (orcs shamans could at least try to restore Draenor, alliance and Belfs on north aiming to heal the land scars after Scourge, trolls making their pacts to other troll fractions to renew their old bonds, humans willing to negotiate with Undead to reclaim Lordearon or to rebuild Stratholme, etc.) There is so many lost potential than just adding new zones, new races, new classes, mixing all classes for all races, redesigning there and back the talent system…
Well, well, how unsurprising for a thumb to the Hordes eyes. Well, the best way to fix it is an eye for an eye. The Alliance owes us a Evil Leader who Betrayed The Alliance And all of Azeroth. There it be Even. Hmm, perhaps Turalyon Turning Evil Light working for the Army of Light From Draenor would be a start.
I KNEW something was up but to totally destroy 3 of our leaders and turn us into the bad guys putting us in the sad sorry state we are in now and all so the Alliance can FELL GOOD? I don't wanna to hear JACK ALL from any person I have argued with this in the past OR the future from NOW ON! I always wondered why out of nowhere Garrosh had such a crazy heel turn and for no reason what so ever…well I can't say no reason anymore, got to make the "Good guys" feel good, even if they are doing war crimes. Make the Horde look evil enough for multiple expansions and suddenly those war crimes and anything else are justified!
I am happy to finally hear the truth because like so many others I knew something just wasn't right or added up. That said now hearing the truth I am NOT happy. We Horde players pretty much had our side destroyed just so the Alliance players can feel better about themselves…that is such the biggest level of BG that has to this day played out. Worse is that I am so now gun shy From having 3 or our leaders taken out that every time I see Thrall walking around I just see the guy wear death flags left and right.
As an Alliance fan I never asked for this and would rather have had Garrosh be a badass Horde Warchief who eventually learned to respect the strengths of the Alliance.
If Cannibal Corpse frontman didn't say those slurs during Blizzcon and we would be playing a different story now.
Thank goodness that War Within turned this trend around, and we got a lot of beloved horde characters getting the spotlight!
Like Thrall, in that one mission.
And… ehm… that orc general, bantering with Captain America on the shore about troop formations.
And… oh, Lillian Voss, in that one spy mission.
And…
Ehh…
Okay, maybe Alliance characters get like… 1-73216 more quests in WW, but I'm sure it aint by design. Dwarves are horde now too, so they all care about dwarves now, right? 🤔
still funny how cataclysm did the whole "battle for azeroth" thing better than Battle for Azeroth
Its almost like the alliance are a group of whiny little crybabies
Damn the allaince!
So you mean there was justice for the Alliance?
Good Good….
Alliance crybabies are responsible for 9/10 bad decisions made by writing teams.
It's fantastic to find Dave Kosak to have created yet another gaping wound in the Warcraft's setting. Cataclysm very much destroyed the "world" of Warcraft and you can see the stark difference right now since Cataclysm classic underperformed so bad they had to roll out Classic Fresh servers because surprise surprise, seeing those cool old worlds destroyed and turned into meme stories in one part, some kind of "commentary" on "war bad" in the other, resulting in a complete tonal and narrative mess.
Dave Kosak's "orb world" BS with all the Winds of Magi-, oh sorry this isn't Age of Sigmar, I mean, Cosmic Forces TM being actually set in 3D and really ending up being different kinds of Monster Energy flavors for completely generic magic is probably his crown achievement though. Just supreme inability to understand the material he's working on and turn it into a parody of itself, what else can you expect from someone whose metric of being hired was doing a meme webcomic using WoW assets?
nothing is this game follows a cohesive line of thought or anything else really it's actually sad
I played Horde until MoP.
I switched cause I just couldn’t take what they did to my boy.
The Horde has been getting the short end of the stick for years in the story….they’ve lost their identity due to Blizzard throwing away their leaders. The Alliance have only lost King Varian so far. The Horde has lost Garrosh. Vol’jin. Sylvanas. And next is Gallywix. Gallywix is a bit less of a problem due to Gazlowe being able to replace him, but seriously come on. The Alliance favoritism is obvious; and it’s pissing me off. We even lost great Horde heroes like Saurfang
The notion this was a result of forum comments is laughable. Blizzard is just terrible at story telling. The way they turned Sylvannas into a genocidal tyrant, just two expansions after Garrosh, is but par for the course for the kings of recolor, relabel, rehash.
I've been telling people this for years and they called me biased towards the Horde.
Uh, no, I have basic reading and context comprehension skills that saw this as an internal conflict between writers a mile away. When you have the pieces laid out to give a consistent reason for a character to be rough around the edges but ultimately a force for good, then suddenly just have those decisions veer hard right, things start to look a little suspicious.
Chromie even says that this version of Garrosh was the worst one.
Remember Taurajo!
garrosh was the real jesus that gave his life for us
Correction, btw… Garrosh waited to give the signal to drop the mana bomb till civilians were evacuated and an army consisting of the Alliances best were on the board. No civilians were killed. Only those that stayed and fought (soldiers).
Fucking Alliance. Ruining everything. Sylvanas was right to burn the hippies tree.
It's been time for a third (neutral) faction for a long while now.
mop is the best expac I skipped
Wrath, and Cata Garrosh was perfect for Warchief. Hot headed, and aggressive, but honorable. Then MoP turned him into a psycho.
Problem is that blizzard killed all important Horde members and never build up any new once so the Horde faction is pretty mutch dead at this point and that is why a new faction conflict cant happen since one side is non existing.
Blizz has favored alliance since vanilla, nothing new
Blizzard's attempt to make the Horde into villains is indicative of the wider storytelling problem the game has had for the last decade and some years, and I blame the writers and creatives that held sway during that time (Alex Afrasiabi mostly. Yeesh, that guy sucks). I've always been an alliance player, but I never perceived them as entirely good, nor the Horde entirely bad. But whoever began making the decisions in MoP really had a bias. That's really where all the questionable decisions began, climaxing with Sylvanas breaking the helm of domination. I'm just glad some of the old guard (well, the good ones at least) are back in, and righting the ship. The War Within, and Dragonflight (to a much lesser extent, ugh, hated Dragonflight) are working to fix what MoP through Shadowlands broke, and I hope the only things that are retconned in the future are the terrible mistakes from that era. Don't get me started on the Jailer and the First Ones.
Garrosh was based. I love that he was unapologetic until the very end. I prefer the Old Horde who did stuff like pave paths out of the bones of men, women, and children they genocided. When you run SoO and see Garrosh impaled all the warlocks on spikes for everyone to see, and the dark shamans twisting the elements, and ferocious beasts being utilized as weapons of war. THAT'S the Horde I like and was hyped. I hate that they sissied out and reverted to "hur dur Horde is ackshually good".
Glad we finally got some closure on that. They really did just flip a switch and turn Garrosh evil. It's really silly to think that they did this because they couldn't think of any other way for the alliance to get a "win." It's even sillier to think that they needed to give them a win, just to even the scores. Why does the score need to be even? That's not how wars work.
Honestly the whole conflict between horde and alliance never made sense because they had to fight so many enemies that threatens to wipe all life that anyone with true logic would realize we need to team up to defendbourselves from these threats but if this happens no game occurs so it will never happen.
Blue good zug zug
Garrosh did nothing wrong
The Alliance is and always been a bitch just look at what they've done to the game with power of friendship Anduin
Alliance Criticism Turned Garrosh EVIL! Lead WoW Dev Speaks Out!
Fixed the title for you. Though, I understand why Complaining will get you more clicks.
The Barrens was a Horde zone. The atrium to Mulgore and Durotar. Jaina allowed troops from Stormwind to land in her city, build a highway through Dustwallow and invade the Barrens. Unless Jaina was betrayed by Stormwind or was forced to sumbit, which didn't seemed to be the case, she threw away her precious neutrality. The city of Theramore became the headquarters for an Alliance invasion into Horde territory. Theramore became the closest enemy base for the Horde. Its bombing was justified. If Booty Bay suddenly turned Horde and allowed a Horde invasion of Duskwood, the Alliance would have done the same to Booty Bay.
He just became Orc Hitler which was a lousy idea. The Horde is not the faction that fits for a Fascism analog. Even back in WC1-WC2 the Horde were Green Mongols/Huns/Norsemen not Nazis. In WC3 the Horde had a whole backstory of escaping from concentration camps then they joined forces with Caribbean Trolls and Native American minotaurs.
The Alliance is the faction that would fit for a Fascism analog. Even back in WC3 it was supposed to be the case that the Alliance members were enslaving the Tauren (hence the Tauren aiding Thrall's Horde) before they scrapped that. They did two faction war expansions where it's up to the faux-Western/White/European focused faction (Alliance) has to save the Horde from itself since it keeps waging wars from its culture. BfA has Anduin finally be cemented as who picks what's acceptable and not acceptable to think with Saurfang (who actively commanded the attack on the Night Elves with Sylvanas even using Fascist talking points to get him aboard) doing what he says.
Really, them not just doing what they tried to do in WCIII was what set the factions to go in the direction they were going in circa Pandaria with WotLK dooming them to it.
Have any of you known any alliance players that weren't either 1) passive aggressive? 2) beyond judgmental? 3) full of shit in what they say? 4) annoying? They seem to spam toys and emotes like /lol and /dance on everyone they target via Horde? 5) Can only win via premades (wpvp/epic BGs)? 6) relentlessly complain until they get their way?
Legit alliance players are some of the shittiest people I've seen. I have a Horde tattoo on my bikini line and I take a lot of pride in that. I love to pvp a lot and /pet or tbag their bodies. It's going to be hard going to the next BlizzCon and legit not spitting on someone that mains alliance. This seems like a really honorable way to go to jail tbh. I'm getting sick at their shit. Especially on the forms. At least the Horde are upfront assholes. They don't play the passive fuck you card then cry like victims when someone calls it out.
So it's Alliance players' fault that we got BfA, SL and Sylvanas' downfall as a character.
Afrasiabi did all that because he was salty about the change in direction they were going with Garrosh's character.
I never liked the idea of all factions suddenly being friends and having one big banner to fight under. I mean it makes sense that when a cosmic being wants to kill the entire planet (Azeroth) you set aside your difference… but it just feels kind of lame.
Compare how vanilla WoW was made with clear divides between what is Horde and what is Alliance, now everyone is the same and i think factions lost a sense of being unique which is sad.
Oh, boo hoo. Let's be real – the Horde are a ragtag group of miscreants made up of alien invaders from another world, dead people trying to take life from the living, troll and tauren tribes who literally couldn't make it on their own but who, actually, no longer need the Horde at all, and some elves who only joined due to a personal grudge against one guy who should have been relieved of duty and court marshalled. The Horde has been held together by a succession so-called strongmen with varying degrees of integrity, and was always ripe for corruption and coup. It's never been fair, and it shouldn't' be fair. The Horde is not and has never been a viable or equal political alternative to the factions who comprise the Alliance, who are in fact the majority of Azeroth's nations, economies, and population. We've got an elven "reunification" coming soon; the tauren and Darkspear have newfound footings in the world, the Forsaken will die out eventually, and frankly, the orcs should go back to Outland or AU Draneor. There is no longer a need for the Horde. Further, the Alliance may also become irrelevant as we move past The Last Titan into a future where new alliances are forged, as Azerothians eke out survival on a potentially devastated world.
Yeah, alliance players complaining ruins everything and has been doing so for a while. It's time we complain until the alliance are turned into villains and defeated, twice, over a period of a decade.
I’m really hoping for more faction conflict in TWW but I’m worried it would be ruined by the recent trend of HR therapy session writing
They did him so dirty